Tue, Dec 06, 2022 4:50PM • 2:16:34
SUMMARY KEYWORDS
neurofeedback, brain, individuals, training, activity, smr, medication, eeg, put, years, called, state, started, talk, john, familiar, theta, therapy, alpha, biofeedback
SPEAKERS
Bill Clearfield
00:19
Just let it slip so whenever I won’t go talk tomorrow have a good night. Thank you oh yes sure here he is
01:01
how you doing?
01:02
I’m doing well.
Bill Clearfield 01:04
Good luck very Professor a shear you have slides to show or no Yeah. You know how to do it right you know how to do the share screen and all of that stuff.
01:20
If I hit Share Screen, do I pull them up first? I have them in my tray.
Bill Clearfield 01:25
Yeah, it will. It’ll it’ll be should be on your desktop. Okay. Right. And then you hit this button here in the middle there it says the green shows share screen.
01:36
Right on then pull them up, and then it’ll come up. Yeah. And it’ll have whatever, whatever.
Bill Clearfield 01:43
It’ll have whatever things you have open on the desktop. So you want to practice now go ahead
01:56
so I would just click on this. Yeah.
02:02
And like that,
Bill Clearfield 02:04
yeah. Okay, there you go. Okay. And then if you go to, from the beginning of here, it’ll get rid of all of this. Right. Don’t make it a hold
02:14
- Okay. Go up where?
Bill Clearfield 02:18
Where it says from the beginning here, the top left.
02:21
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, just like a regular one. Right. Yeah. Right.
Bill Clearfield 02:25
Okay. Just so you know, okay. All right.
02:30
So I’ll wait until
Bill Clearfield 02:31
Yeah, we usually go till a couple of minutes after five. Most of them come in around. Five 515. Last week, we were a little bit low. I think it was a holiday and so
02:46
if you’re you know, John. Yeah. Hello, Doctor clinic. Nice to see you. Likewise. Look at looking forward to tonight’s class.
03:05
Oh, good.
03:08
I am as well. So,
Bill Clearfield 03:14
okay, so usually, you know, I’ll just let the folks in we just kind of chit chat until until, you know, ready to go. I usually you know, just give you a brief intro and then give your credentials and you know, how you ended up you know, where you are doing whatever it is that you do. It’s all fairly informal. It’s not a CME so you can mention brand names, you can mention whatever products you use, and all it’s all okay, it’s not a yeah, not one. Of those deals. So, okay. So, and this is Fred up here, he’s our He’s our resident. He’s, he’ll know if your buffalo in us or not So, okay.
04:06
Right, Fred? Hey, Fred.
04:07
Yeah. How you doing?
04:10
Send me a private message, Fred, and we’ll negotiate.
04:15
Yeah, you want my cell account? Or do Venmo? Yeah. Yeah. So So where are you located?
04:25
I’m in North Lake Tahoe. Oh, you’re
04:28
also your local. Okay. Yeah. Tahoe Vista. Okay, so, how much I saw up there. They got four feet in some spots of snow on the storms.
04:41
Higher elevations here at Lake level. Probably eight inches, maybe where I live maybe a little bit more. I live in close proximity to the lake about 600 yards across the street. Okay, as you go away further north from the lake as the storms blow in and they drop more snow we’re buffered because the water temperature pushes the snow beyond us.
05:12
I’ve been here 44 years and but my daughter we she got up at gar woods. And then we actually hit her caking rock, Broadway, whatever.
05:26
They’re they’re closed now. They are. Yeah, they went out of business.
05:30
Oh, that was a great bakery there. You know, yeah, they
05:34
owned that building and I think they’re renting it. I don’t know, the particulars but there is no longer a bakery there. I think between Safeway and rallies and all these other places. They had a hard time competing.
05:47
Yeah, we got some stuff in Safeway, Safeway, which we then rented. I can’t remember what the cabins were called, but they were really nice, but halfway between the incline and Kalyan bay where gar Woods is that
06:03
oh the rustic cottage?
06:05
Yeah, that’s it.
06:07
I live right around the corner from that if you had toured gar woods on the first street, right around the corner from that,
06:13
so I thought it was right by there and yeah, those Catholics it’s just been remodeled. This was back in 2007. In August and know when until we were done with the wedding and you know, it’s just it turned out great. I mean, the prices really weren’t too bad for I thought it was gonna be real pricey, but basically putting up a folding chair was almost as expensive as a meal. I think they charge $25 a share on the beach. So but it was great. And so you’ve been in Reno all your life or
06:51
no, I’ve been up here for 30 years.
06:55
So you say on priors in California.
06:58
Yeah, I’ve been in California since 1977. I finished my undergraduate and part of my graduate work at Northern Arizona University. Okay, and then I started a school psychology internship in the Imperial Valley, you know where it’s 120 in the shade.
07:19
Oh, yeah. I have a client who has a place of Mecca. 22 miles east of Palm Desert. Actually a fish farm. You know, and I went down and one time in August, I got heat frustration. I was out there. Luckily, they gave me a hat and stuff but the only smart ones to do it would go from shade to shade and go into the water, you know, and three hours later I mean, my whole system just like renting now. I used to like the sun now I get nauseous when it gets hot like that. So
07:54
my wife was raised in the Imperial Valley, and she says she graduated high school in June. And in June of the same year, she moved to San Diego. But we had I met her there she had moved back temporarily and she ended up getting the same suit into the same situation as you We went on a bike ride at eight o’clock in the morning and couldn’t get plus they irrigate the crops. So now you have all this humidity. Well, that’s a good place to be
08:34
from. It’s like my friend and for us know what last Kalinga or something down there. We were at the Harris ranch. We come out like seven o’clock at night. I guess they were doing something where you could just smell the cattle manure, you know, I mean, I have no sense of smell but he said Oh, God is gonna be hard sleeping tonight. Even with the windows closed. You know? So yeah, for personal to me is even almost as bad in a lot of respects as Imperial Valley.
09:10
Yeah, the crimes much worst too.
09:12
Yeah, it’s a lot of Indians. It’s not like the standard crime like when you go to watts or someplace like that, or Compton, you know, it’s a weird type of crime. It’s just, you know, different different crowd. It’s like a foreign community but Indians and usually they’re pretty passive. But first of all is you live at a problem
09:35
in your, your for me, Reno as well.
09:40
Miami and move to 59 to Illinois, spent 19 years there in the weather finally said I gotta get the hell out of here. And so I’ll hear it snows but snow straight down and it’s I mean, bill goes from Pennsylvania, which doesn’t get like like buffalo got, you know, like
Bill Clearfield 09:59
two weeks ago from where it gets like buffalo got Pennsylvania.
10:03
Oh, you are okay. Yeah. Yeah, well, you know, I tried to like snow sideways and a windshield even stick to anything just drifts all over.
Bill Clearfield 10:12
Yeah. This weather this weather here springtime. Yeah,
10:16
everybody’s running around like the cold and stuff and just like, you are nuts. You know, this is nice. This is sweater weather. You know?
10:24
I was born in Youngstown, Ohio. So I was reading between you guys.
10:30
And my son did a summer project at Case Western Cleveland long the nice neighborhood around Case Western. It’s just like USC, it’s all ghetto all the way wrapped around it. You know? So Youngstown then I’ll start I had a mutual friend Gary frickin who was on the happy days. He was a Youngstown Jewish mix. What a combination you know i i have about two or three stories when I was running around with them down there. And it was, you know, just one of the most bizarre weekend’s I ever had in my life. So, anyway, okay, Bill, I’ll let you take over and as we
Bill Clearfield 11:20
as probably all right, well, welcome everybody. We have a bit of a crowd now. Tonight we have Dr. John cynic. Who is a local your psychologist John. Yeah, I’m
11:34
an educational psychology psychologist, and John
Bill Clearfield 11:37
deals with treatment resistant psychiatric conditions.
11:44
Normal feedback
Bill Clearfield 11:47
is sent to your main tool and he will he’s going to explain it all to us. So John and his family have been my patients. I think since the day I moved to Reno we’re pretty close to it and as you can see, he’s still standing so we’ll, we’ll we’ll use that as a testimonial. So I’m gonna let you take it away, John, and I’ll let anybody in who comes comes late. We’ll try and keep everybody else quiet. Introduce yourself credentials and take it away. And like I said, it’s not CME. You can mention anything you like. And we’re, we’re happy to have you so
12:27
well, thank you very much. Yeah, I’m gonna see if I do this Oh, good. You’re still there. I can still see some people. Yeah. Yeah, so I started my professional career as a school psychologist back in the early 80s. I became interested in helping you know, some of the ADHD populations. I did a lot of therapy in the schools. And a lot of the parents would say to me, is there anything we can do besides at that time? You know, Ritalin or dexedrine because we’ve already tried it and our children our child isn’t, you know, getting on the program. And at the same time, one of the founders of the company of the software that I still use to this day, gave a presentation in Sacramento and San San Francisco. And I attended it and to my colleagues said, we’re going to start this tomorrow. And I said, Okay, I’m gonna give you guys a year. This was a 1992. And you let me know what you think of this, at the time very new. Treatment. It had been around since the 60s and I’m going to share some of that history later. But it was still relatively unknown in the 80s. And thankfully, there was a couple Dr. Siegfried Othmer and Susan Othmer, his wife, who Ted attended UCLA, with their son to do some of this, at the time, we called it EEG biofeedback to help their son’s seizure disorder, and they became so enthralled with it that they decided they were going to put this on a PC instead of a mainframe computer. And so they really helped spawn the field to grow. So what I’d like to do is explain a little bit about where I work and what I do now because Nope, I hit a god it moves me. There we go. So we work with treatment resistant patients. I work with a psychiatrist, a psychiatric nurse practitioner, and myself. And we’re located in Auburn California, which means my office is 70 miles from my home. The reason I have been doing this off and on for almost a couple of decades, is because I found that neurofeedback is a very powerful treatment. And yet, most of the individuals I worked with were on medication. And I couldn’t get a lot of cooperation from people who were prescribing when I’d say, hey, their brain is starting to get more efficient. You know, we have to consider you have to consider re evaluating their medication. Well, you know, they didn’t want to do that. And I was introduced to Dr. David Foster. And he had an individual in his office doing Neurofeedback who trained under the same group that I had trained with, and now they gave him my name. I consulted with people almost from the start of this in helping them learn how to do neurofeedback. effectively. And in 2003, I started teaching for EEG spectrum. It’s now called eager. It’s a software company that made the software you’re gonna see some of it tonight. And so every month I taught a four day course, all around the United States as far away as Johannesburg, South Africa for almost 10 years, while maintaining a practice the other three weeks. You see, I’m only 47 Now just kidding. But it was definitely a pace and I enjoyed every minute of it. I learned more from the people that wanted to take Neurofeedback than I could probably ever teach them as one person. It was a fantastic experience and it really helped my skills. And it continued to foster my desire to to spread the word about about neurofeedback. It’s a wonderful treatment and I hope at the end of this year, you’ll have a little bit of a better understanding that since I taught it for many years, if I get into teaching mode too much just let me know. It’s just something that that may happen. I’m going to try not to do that. So I work with David Foster. He’s a psychiatrist. He’s very well known in Northern California. He has sat in on over a dozen death row inmate evaluations, most of them serial murderers. Some of you may remember 3035 years ago Bill bond in the LA freeway murder. He spent many days in a cage, a plastic cage and a prison interview. It’s so hard to make friends so hard, right? But I
18:02
have to step back and be like what am I and so
18:07
his his intention of doing that work, not only to you know, evaluate these individuals, but to get a sense of where this all started with them. And the reason being he’s also a child SEC certified and board certified child psychiatry, is that he was working with a lot of foster children and you know, a lot of group home children and what he saw was scaring Lee similar types of behaviors that were reported being in the youth of some of these murders, and he thought, wow, if we could change the pathway of these individuals as children, while they’re still valuable, you know, we might be able to stop some of them from growing into Bill bargains. And also the Unabomber. Kaczynski he evaluated him. Interestingly enough, they didn’t really share his opinion back then. 30 years ago, he said that he was Asperger’s with psychotic traits. They diagnosed him at the time as schizophrenic. Just recently, there was a show on TV about Ted Kaczynski and one of the psychiatrist. interviewed said, Gee, you know, we’re coming to realize now that he may have been on the autistic spectrum. So Foster is a very unique individual. I cherish working with him. He’s different in many ways. prescribes a lot of supplements does complete board panels with with everyone very much along the lines of what? Clearfield desh only for different purposes, right. He’s looking at psychrotrophic So we get along we when I say we get along, once again, when I first started, it was hard to get someone to realize that maybe the medication doses may have to be changed as the brain becomes more efficient. We’ll talk about that a little bit. And also Colleen Phelan is a psychiatric nurse practitioner. Her specialty is working in hormones therapy. We’re working with a lot of foster children now. And it’s very exciting because we’re seeing some transformational results. And that was our goal. So our next goal is to expand our program and hopefully train teams because I’m finding that as much as I pardon me as much as I love Neurofeedback and working with it, working as a team with these people and bear type of skills. And them staying the same about me, has really developed a program that I think is worth expanding to other individuals. So what we do is not unusual. And I just want to go over very quickly. Integrated psychiatric solutions is is really these three components main components of Psychopharmacology, which includes supplements, it includes all types of alternative combinations of medication, psychotherapy, there’s probably not a therapy out there that at least one of us haven’t used or tried or been been familiar with. So there’s a lot of therapy going on. Dr. Foster sees these patients he sees his patients he does therapy with them. He doesn’t simply prescribe and the neurofeedback component is which which is the main emphasis of what I want to talk about tonight. But I really want everyone to keep in mind that it’s the synergistic output is what I think is is able to make a transformation. For many people. It’s not just about symptom reduction. It’s about trying to help them make changes in their life that are long lasting. So in doing the
22:42
the symptom appraisal
22:47
these are the three of the main components and once again, each one has has many factions. I want to talk about a quantitative EEG many of you may have heard of it man. Many of you may not be familiar at all. Please don’t be offended if I make this you know fairly straightforward. I don’t know what everybody’s background is. But with the children, Dr. Foster and I we have weekly case meetings about every every child we work with about what they’re doing with him in therapy, medically. What they’re doing, if they’re most of these individuals that we’re seeing now are in group homes because they failed anywhere from one to 30 Foster placements. These are what we call deep foster children severely abused severely neglected and incapable of holding relationships pretty much with anyone. So we we have to stay very closely aligned in how we view these individuals. And whatever therapy he’s he’s using, and whatever. Talk therapy I’m using during neurofeedback is always to support what he’s doing and vice versa. So this cooperation, I feel is exponentially more effective than what I could do alone. Or what he could do on his own as well. So these things Oh, okay. So, a corner v e g, is what I want to talk about now and kind of KT V G, or Q eg from this point forward, is an evaluation of the brainwaves just like you do in a hospital. In neurological setting. I choose to use caps to do the acquisition of the brainwave recording. Many individuals still do individual placements on all 19 of these channels. I find the caps to be advantageous because they’re pre measured so as long as I get a cap that fits the head correctly, and you can see that there are different colors for different size heads. I’m able to get a very accurate assessment of 19 channels of, of EEG activity. So this is a sample and of a recording that’s gone to a company called Q E G Pro, they’re out of the Netherlands. So after I record these I do my 10 minute eyes, open eyes closed recordings, I send the data I email it to the Netherlands and I get back about 200 pages of data. So every 10 seconds, this is approximately a 10 second recording, maybe 15 Here is is put into the graphs and you can see the different head recordings here the different sight of the head recordings from those caps that you saw in the previous slide. Now, this is a typical neurological readout and neurologists are spectacular at picking up nuance and things within the EEG from these recordings. Where the cue differs from this is this data. This analog data is then put into a database it’s converted using Fast Fourier transformation and FFT that converts temporal data into digital data. And then we can get a brain map as we call it. So we scan the brain we get these brain maps. This is a sample of one page. This data is taken from that slide you saw it’s the same data that you saw on the previous slide. And we see that we have different different ways of of viewing the data that comes in. We have what we call absolute power. That’s the raw data. It’s plotted according to different brainwave frequencies, delta theta, alpha, beta, high beta, I’m going to talk a little bit more about those in detail to then we have relative power. So in this particular case, we see that relative power. If you look up to the top you see theta is the second from the left. And if you look down you see that the posterior part of that topographical map, the rear of the brain is three standard deviations it’s a z score of three. So right away we know there is an abnormal amount of slow wave activity in this person’s recording. Amplitude asymmetry is not as always clearly defined. There’s a lot of work going on with it right now. There’s a lot of assumptions about how data is is collected from the from the EEG and mapped typically amplitude asymmetry may be looking at some sort of lesion or some sort of irregularity in the hardware of the brain. We have coherence and phase lag, which are connectivity measures. How well does the brain communicate from one place to another, we have hypo coherence, hyper coherence, hypo coherence. Well, we know that there there may be difficulty with some kind of communication, getting from one part of the brain to another hyper coherence may suggest that there’s a the individual stuck in certain brainwave frequencies that impede their ability to function normally. No comments. So, another map of that identical activity is called a Loretto. It’s a low resolution brain electromagnetic tomography. What this does is it uses a different technology to go into the looking for the origin of the EEG that you saw on the topographical map. So the topographical map is looking at how the sensor picks up data off of the scalp, which generally, the scalp gets maybe 20% of the activity from pyramidal cells summated pyramidal cells. So now we’re trying to go deeper in what is referred to as voxels. So a two dimensional picture that you’re looking at here is pixels. We’ve all heard of pixels or TV has pixels. voxels are a three dimensional cube per se. array that is categorized here, looking at it almost looks like an MRI. It’s actually co registered with fMRI and some of the other imaging techniques, some of the research in here. Researchers that put these all together just are really my heroes because they’ve withstood the test of time. There’s been a lot of debate about whether or not a quantitative EEG is a legitimate form of assessment. Once again, it does the Q EEG is not used for diagnostic purposes. It’s strictly used for mapping out irregular brain activity. Now you will see that in this pattern we wish we saw that the theta was three standard deviations. But yet when we look theta, or theta here, it’s much less so what we’re realizing right away is that most of this aberrant behavior is much more cortical than deep. There’s some deep generators, but it seems to become even more irregular at the surface. Those are the kinds of things we look at with a quantitative EEG as a part of the assessment tool. So how do we use it in our practice? Well, for one thing Dr. Foster has determined through years of reading the maps and looking at people’s behavior and their response to medication, that he can look at a brain map and determine more particularly what will not be effective as what may be so I think we get a little interference here. Okay, so, for example, ADHD people, some have a very high failure to beta ratio, say to being a slow wave b being a fast way, a lot of theta leads to this distractibility stimulants generally do well because they turn on the left frontal lobe, it tends to reduce some of that fade activity, normalizing the brain behavior. Other ad, HD individuals may have high alpha activity, and they will not respond well to stimulants but they may do well to things like guanfacine guanfacine, clonidine, Morteza pain,
32:39
as well as lowers. They lower high high alpha. So we see the alpha can go down. And if the individual with the high alpha is ADHD, male also have anxiety. It helps to do both of those things. This is just one quick example of how we go about using this. And then when he determines what medication will work for these individuals, we typically see that if he puts them on medication, initially, and they’re able to start functioning, they’re going to do better with their Neurofeedback treatment. Typically, we’ll, we’ll use two to four weeks, possibly, excuse me of medication till it’s pretty stabilized the dosage particularly. And then we’ll go into the neurofeedback. We also look at what types of psychotherapy can be chosen based on these quantitative results. Your somebody has a lot of slow wave activity in the frontal lobes, the left reload in particular, the slow wave activity could be disrupting information processing they may do very poorly cognitive behavioral therapy. But we may be able to do Emotionally Focused Therapy or some other type of mental mental emotional release therapies or therapies that don’t really involve a lot of cognitive processing per se. So we’re also using it to look at what kind of therapy would be most effective. Also the cue EEG can be very helpful looking at how we use neurofeedback. So, before we get into the specifics of of Neurofeedback we need to start with a review of biofeedback and biofeedback is a technique to achieve voluntary control over volunteer physiological functions, which are normally regulated through the autonomic nervous system without conscious awareness but we know and I’ve given some examples here that you know, most of you are familiar with really a lot of it’s a polygraph in biofeedback, right? But the EEG is also giving us feedback. And for some reason, the trade name Neurofeedback was developed early on, I think, to differentiate it from biofeedback. Whether or not that’s that’s important doesn’t matter to me. I called it EEG biofeedback for years now I call it neurofeedback. It seems that Neurofeedback nomenclature has really, this is really caught on. So, what is neurofeedback? It’s a learned response. I’m going to show you how it works in a minute. It does not require continued vigilance. I mean, the brain is really doing implicit learning. The computer provides information to the brain, and the brain picks it up. very succinctly. What can Neurofeedback affect? Well, it can affect arousal. The arousal model is one of the classic models in which we talk about neurofeedback, it when we talk about sleep wake cycle cycles circadian rhythm. Many times individuals will have difficulty falling asleep staying asleep. We see dramatic changes in sleep cycles. Many times it was Neurofeedback cognitive processing. As in learning disabilities, there has been some success in those kinds of areas. sensory motor integration, learning to control impulsivity, moods, and even memory. So, this training, I don’t want it to look like a panacea. But once again, when it’s used properly with the types of interventions that are being given with it it can be a very valuable additional tool.
36:56
So how did this all start?
36:59
Well, back in the 60s Dr. Barry Sturman was working at the I believe it supported a VA hospital down in LA and he was doing a lot of research. And so he started he was doing operant conditioning of cats. And this was a NASA investigation because there was rocket fuel was being used for the jet pilots and he was doing sleep research at the time. So NASA contacted him and said, hey, you know, we’re interested to know what happens to our pilots. If some of the model methyl hydrazine gets stuck in the cabin and they start to breathe it excuse me, I’m bouncing around here. So he said, Well, why don’t you give me some of this jet fuel and we’ll see what we can find out. So in the meantime, he’s studying these cats and he’s looking at at sleep and how to sleep occur. And he was looking at the internal inhibition of cats. He was trying to see if operant conditioning could make the cats go to sleep. Could he condition the types of brainwaves in cats night? Remember these not remember but I’ll let you know that these sensors are right on this on the cortex. So this was a surface electrodes. These were deep seated electrodes right in the sensory motor area of the of the cat cat’s brain but what he noticed was during these internal inhibition experiments, instead of the cats becoming sleepy became very alert. And they produce this new rhythm over the motor cortex of 12 to 15 cycles a second brainwave activity. He called it SMR for sensory motor rhythm. So he trained these cats with the sleep experiments, and they created this SMR operant conditioning feedback where the their brains were making more of this activity than other cats. Now he exposed them to the jet fuel. And what if in the exposed him to the point where they would go into seizures? I mean, this was serious research back then, with regard to how are humans being affected by this? And so what he found was there there was a huge latency in the individuals that had done the SMR conditioning. They either had lower seizure, higher seizure threshold, or they didn’t have a seizure at all. Okay, they were more resistant. Some of them remain seizure free. And he thought, gee, this is interesting. So it was one of those scientific experiments where you’re looking for one thing and you find something that ends up being totally different than what you’re looking for, but yet very significant. So he published his clear data that brainwaves could be oppositely conditioned, that was in 1967. So a meta study in 2004, epilepsy suggested 82% had a significant seizure reduction, etc here and you know, 5% had complete control. So, yeah, is the EEG Neurofeedback used for seizure? amelioration? Sure, we need more research on specific training for specific types of seizures? I think that’s, that would be the next step. So from that, we really we realize that there are a lot of disorders that may be categorized as minor head injuries, you know, it may not be something that’s diagnoseable by current standards, but that they have this dysregulation in their brain. So now, all these years later, we’re finding that the clinical applications of Neurofeedback have a pretty wide range of support. Once again, we’re not saying we cure these individuals, but we definitely improve their symptomology and as I tell individuals to come in to see me with some of the more significant presentations, Tourette’s, mood disorders, etc. If we can make a 20% change in your behavior in your in your symptomology that’s life changing. So I’m always trying to be very realistic with individuals, although the things with conditions like ADHD, we’re seeing 70% reduction in sometimes even more. There’s a lot of things listed here and without going into all of the applications, I’ve listed a link for a comprehensive Neurofeedback bibliography for those of you that are interested, because I know not everyone’s interested in all of them. And probably somebody’s interested in all of you are interested in at least one of these is the way I’m I’m hoping that you’ll maybe want to take a look at some of the the articles in your specific area of specialization. If you think about it, the nervous the central nervous system really affects just about everything. And we have found a way to non invasively help the brain find homeostasis. We’re trying to find we’re trying to help the brain find the resources that it already has, for whatever reason that it’s not able to use them. So how does this Neurofeedback system work? Typically, the standard system has a computer and a monitor which has games on it. The clinician computer and monitor shows a live readout of brainwave activity. And the sensors are placed on the client based on all the information we just talked about. There are different trainings for different outcomes based on where you put them on the scalp and what frequencies you ask the brain to attend to. Now you’re not putting a signal in, it’s done through this feedback and I’m going to show you a little bit about that too. So brainwaves are are very interesting. They’re a millionth of a volt so they’re so tiny. We can’t even see him without an amplifier to collect and process the signal. So one of the things that became very clear early on was the quicker the feedback is to the screen which the individual is watching, or the auditory beep, which is a signal saying your brains making adequate compensation for what we’ve asked it to do, the better the result. And so most of these systems are set up to provide feedback in less than a second to what the brain has just done. So it’s real time feedback. This is how a system looks. Now I don’t allow or I don’t encourage my clients to look at my screen. I encourage them to look at a game screen. So this young child here is looking at a game screen. Okay, behind there is a therapist monitor in between the two computers is an amplifier. Now there’s amplifiers half the size of that now, the original amplifier I had in 1994 was half the size of this laptop. So, you know, we’ve come a long way with technology and it’s wonderful because when I first started teaching in 2003, let’s say we were in Boston, they would fly one system for every two people. So if we had 40 people in a class 20 systems, two computers. For each one we had to set up 40 old CRT desktop computers to teach the course the interactive games or to keep everyone interested, most people don’t want to look at their brainwaves when they’re doing this. They want to kind of get into the zone of looking at some kind of video representation of something they’re familiar with the game there. The game is independent of the feedback because, you know, the therapist sets up the feedback and they can choose whatever game they want and it’ll respond according to how it’s set up. It gives variety we have a variety of different games to keep them interested. So we choose a game typically based on age, interest, you know those kinds of things. This is one of the first original games I love this game. It’s still a very, very good tool. I still use this every day. It was developed in 1988.
46:53
It was developed by the son of the authors who started a company called EEG spectrum. It’s now referred to as eager EEG er. They’ve gone on to develop another system. And this was developed by their son who was a seizure client of Dr. sturminster at UCLA. And so when they were developing these PC software programs, this was one of the first games they developed. So what happens is, as the individual meets the thresholds for the variables, the therapist sets up, then Pac Man moves through the maze. If they start to get off of those thresholds, which I’ll show you in a second, then PacMan turns black and slows down. So in essence, the individual is training their own brain. This is another game which has three variables purple, green in yellow, and you tell the individual Okay, I want you to keep the green ship in front of the other two chips. So we’re giving them information. If you look on that screen, you’ll see that the purple and yellow have a thick gray component at the bottom of those bars. And the green one has the gray area in the top. So we asked them to try and keep the green bars in the top and try to keep or suppress the purple and yellow bars down in to the bottom of the screen where the gray is. So the the instructions are relatively simple. I usually tell them focus on one thing, focus on the green ship, look at the jet fuel, you know, et cetera. The brain is picking up all the information much beyond their conscious appraisal of what’s going on. After training them for several sessions, or even more, they do start to connect what they’re doing with what they’re seeing. And they’ll say Oh, this is too hard today. This is too easy. Dr. Finnick make it a little harder for me today. I want to be more challenged or I want to get more points. So they actually become very interactive with this implicit learning. So this is what I look at when they’re looking at their screen. And the top channel is what we call the raw EEG. It’s the entire spectrum. of frequencies from zero to 40 cycles a second. So, below that, we see that there’s an inhibit band, a reward band of frequencies and another inhibit. So, once again, the purple and the yellow then are these two inhibit bands. And I said, keep the waves low, suppress that activity, because we’re trying to inhibit slow and fast waves here. The mid frequency waves here 15 To 18 cycles per second. We’re trying to enhance so we’re trying to reduce the harmonies, the background music, those slow waves and the fast waves, the treble and the bass and we’re trying to increase the melody we’re trying to get the brain to bring forward this specific set of frequencies into the foreground. Because it activates an activation of those waves, their brain starts to pay more attention to it. Therefore, move the green ship forward enhance this reward frequency. So this is why the graphic interface was introduced. Now personally when I want to do some neurofeedback training I just look at the waves and tell myself make less of this. Make more of that. Some people really like looking at brainwaves. I happen to be one person that does but I don’t expect everybody to you know get their jollies looking at sideways. So, when we look at the state of arousal and wave patterns, we see that when the brain is excited, it becomes more active as it becomes more activated. Excuse me, it becomes smaller. And that’s because as brain the brain waves are the summation of action potentials, neuronal action potentials, they sum as they synchronize, the brainwaves get bigger. So when we look into alpha here, we see a relaxed state and a faded state of drowsy state we see that the the waves are are slower by that we mean that there are less of them per linear inch. Okay. I included some of this, but unfortunately, it’s in the wrong place. But if anybody has any questions, please feel free to ask. So when we see a lot of activity here, we know that the brain is synchronized. There’s there’s some ating and they’re firing in unison. That’s what happens as we get into a relaxed state. And if you think about it, a relaxed state means you’re not in this motivational or anxious or, you know, high thinking state you’re you’re more into a state where you’re paying attention to a wider horizon in your environment. You’re not focusing on a page, you’re maybe focusing on an entire landscape or something like that. We’ll see that there’s more of these action potential submitting when you have to do a mental Task, Reading writing arithmetic. Each individual portion of the beta waves has a specific task, and so they become smaller because each of them are functioning independently. As we get into drowsiness and sleep, the pattern changes again you can see that the deep sleep is very large. And at that point, most of the, you know, the cortex is is pretty much shut down from conscious activity, fortunately, right and we’re also immobilized except for those that so small EEG is normal. That’s what we’re looking for. When we see some of these larger EGS we go, ooh, we’ve got to try and figure out what protocol based on what we looked at earlier, would help this individual to get their brain more in tune. Now, it’s not always that we see this bottom trace, turn into the top one, but we do as much as we can to teach the brain how to become activated through this feedback process. Or in some instances how to relax. So there’s right now and there’s three main types of of neurofeedback. The SMR beta training, the Alpha Theta training and this q e g based training now, I’m going to jump ahead here and come back and I apologize for that. So, let’s review some of our basics. Just, you know, a hertz that I’ve been talking about is an entire upward and downward cycle from A to B. That’s one hertz, as I talked about 14 hertz, you know, this is what I’m referring to. A frequency is how many of those hertz occur in a second. So we have eight cycles, we have an eight hertz signal that that is the frequency is how frequently it occurs. Amplitude is the measure of power, how high and low the sine wave goes, how many micro volts is it? And that’s what the amplitude measure is. So when we go back to this page, we see the SMR beta training are those mid frequencies 12 to 20 hertz, where we can pick the SMR or we can pick a little higher beta training. If we’re going to do SMR training. Classically, typically we’re using right hemisphere, because the right hemisphere, mid dominant frequency is actually lower than the left hemisphere. So if somebody comes in they need to be calm. We might do right hemisphere with an SMR reward while we’re inhibiting those
56:06
excessive slow wave activities. If they have trouble focusing, we might do beta training, which is slightly faster 15 to 18 hertz, that would be under the left hemisphere, the training and it’s teaching your brain through feedback where to activate the brain for more focus, as opposed to being calm. When I’m talking about calm I’m talking about with a body becomes calm. In many instances, when we calm the body, we don’t need to do beta training for focus. The beta training was there the anxiety, or the high level of functioning in the right hemisphere was disrupting focus. So we’ve you know through neurofeedback, I’ve learned that I can calm somebody to increase focus, as well as activate to increase focus and this is where the clinical skill is required. Now the Alpha Theta training are the are slower waves, alpha is eight, eight to 11 theta is four to seven. So now we have less sine wave activity per second. This is done with eyes closed. Because when we close our eyes, there is an immediate increase in alpha activity in the parietal lobe of the brain. It’s the beginning of relaxation. Before you know unless you pass out none of us go from an awake state to sleep, right? We have to relax. So alpha is the is the first visible sign that we’re starting to relax. We can see anywhere from two to three times the amplitude of alpha in the parietal lobe, just by closing our eyes. And what we do is we’ll ask a patient to sit in a chair with their feet firmly on the ground to be grounded. And there’ll be instead of it being feedback in the form of a beep and the visual points as we saw in these in the first particular example there. They’ll be sounds there’s a creek sound when alpha is being enhanced. There’s an ocean beats sound when theta is being enhanced. And for any of you that have sat on the beach and listened to the ocean, I guarantee you are getting in a theta state. And that’s why we flocked to the ocean and try and be quiet and calm and feel like we’re one with the ocean. That’s the theta experience. So we’re trying to emulate that. There’s been a lot of research on addiction recovery with Alpha Theta training, particularly inpatient. And then there’s also Q EEG based training, which is done on those Loretta offers that Loretta information that we looked at earlier. So the SMR beta once again, it’s a focused on stabilizing or activating and calming the motor system of the brain. It’s improving inhibition. 90% of what the cortex does is inhibit in inhibition, activity, inhibitory activity. So, you know, that’s why what we see in our jails, are people that can’t control their inhibition, right? So all of us have this excitatory active activation of our brain, our cortex works to inhibit it. That’s why we train children. We’re training inhibition. Nobody has to train a child to yell you got to train him to stop yelling. So that’s inhibition. Once again, it was first used with epilepsy. And now there’s quite a wide range of disorders that have proven to be fairly efficacious. And once again, I listed a comprehensive bibliography. The Alpha Theta training, then started with his research around alcoholism. Well, actually, the foundation of it was at the manager Institute in Kansas. Some of you may be familiar with that. Albert and Alice green. Well, the greens worked on what he called a state of revelry, and he would enhance theta in the occipital lobe. And put people into an extremely deep state of relaxation. So what do we know about things like addiction, high high correlation with anxiety so when individuals that undergo treatment with the Alpha Theta protocol, what we what Eugene that Albert Eugene Penniston found was that it replaces their endogenous endorphins in Kefalonia. So once that occurs, then the alcohol isn’t necessary. And the the cycle here is as you drink alcohol or take drugs, you’re increasing the brains you’re synthetically activating these these activities that make us feel relaxed, right? That’s why we have a glass of wine, etc. But in the case of alcoholism, the alcohol actually replaces the natural state that you would get into when you’re relaxed, which is an alpha state. The only way you get in now for now is to drink because you’ve re you’ve eliminated the brain’s ability to do it naturally. So by handsewing alpha, and hopefully getting them to relax enough to get into a faded dominant state where the amplitude of the theta is actually higher than the alpha and they’re chill. They’re very relaxed, and subsequently, the cravings go away because the brain starting to create its own ability to alphabetize Alright, so it helps stimulate this imagery. And that’s all part of the theta state where creativity takes place. And it helps to process deeper emotional issues. And that’s also why some people have chronic addiction. They don’t want to deal with some emotional issues, trauma. A lot of this work was done with, you know, PTSD individuals. Military type of PTSD, and there’s been some very good success with this. It needs at this point we’re finding most of the success comes from inpatient where they’re in their 30 or 60 days and they’re doing this training every day. The beta SMR training I find works best if you do it a minimum of every other day, a maximum of every other day, once or even twice a week. The brain needs to sleep after it does this learning it needs to consolidate learning? The Alpha Theta is just the relaxation training can be very powerful. However, for most of the individuals that are traumatized or having trouble with addiction, we do that beta SMR training first before they can even get close to doing this type of training. So it’s a very complex procedure, but more and more people are becoming aware that this is the real deal, and it can really help these kinds of people. I’m seeing there’s a couple of questions or there’s questions in the chat box. I don’t have I don’t have it. Okay, here it is. Does it matter if a person is left handed? That’s a That’s a great question. Today, no. I used to teach Neurofeedback and one of the other professors was a neuro psychologist did his dissertation on left right hemisphere differences and said that this particular behavior that we’re seeing is not dependent on handedness. Does hypnotoad does hypnosis have to put people on theta state to be effective? No, it’s It’s more of a hypnagogic or self hypnotic state. And they’re aware that they’re in the room. They are definitely aware that they’re in the room. However, time becomes something in which they are unable to keep track of time is irrelevant. I’ll say there’ll be under for 45 minutes during the listening to these. And the Alpha Theta training is a crossover training. It goes to where people will, you know, their amplitudes will crossover between alpha and theta. And there seems to be a lot of emotional release in that crossover area. So there’ll be going back and forth. And at the end of 45 minutes, we’ll say, How long do you think this last look, I don’t know five minutes. 10. So we know they’re in that state where, you know, conscious awareness of time, etc. You know, cognitive things is is really diminished.
1:06:05
Okay.
1:06:09
Oh, let’s see. Now let’s go here we go. So the cue EEG based training is different in that you’re using the full cap much of the time, or maybe three or four channels hooked independently, but a lot of people are doing with a call full cap 19 channel 19 channel training simultaneously. Now this training is based on the Z score feedback that we saw in those earlier like Loreta maps. The increasing or decreasing Z scores that are two and a half three standard deviations from normal, trying to stabilize the nervous system. Pardon me, this is a newer form of feedback. I mean, it’s been around from the 90s. But once again, the other has been around from the 60s. I’ve had some training in this I administer cue EGS at this point, honestly, I haven’t done full head EEG training. With the population. I work with these extremely delicate, delicate, delicate, delicate nervous systems. I do one channel of training, which means I have two year clips and one sensor on the head. And the reason I’ve chosen to stay with that for this population is that these these nervous systems are so fragile, that it’s in my opinion, the least invasive way to help them gain control of what’s going on inside their head. An example would be a young man that we’re working with in our clinic that had severe neglect heroin parents living in motels, you know.
1:08:09
severe abuse
1:08:12
were taken from parents, failed foster placements, went to live with his great aunt, with whom he developed a relationship fell in love with found her dead on the floor at six years old had a call 911 Well, from that point on, you know, things went south. He ended up after about 15 failed placements in a group home. And eight years old, we started working with him about a year ago. He’s still in a group home but he is making a transformation he is going through some developmental stages of four, five and six now, and we really feel within the next six to nine months. He will more than likely be able to hold a fast replacement. Will Neurofeedback interfere with someone who has a cochlear implant. Another really good question. If you get too close to it, it might be most of the time you’re not training directly behind the ear. The closest typically we come is the temporal lobe or higher in the parietal lobe. We would have to make an allowance for that. We’re only looking at frequencies between zero and 40 hertz. So I’m not familiar with the frequencies of a cochlear implant for the purposes of auditory information processing, but I’m sure that they’re well, I’m a little bit familiar I’ve built speaker cabinets I used to be a sound technician many many years ago, but those frequencies are typically above what brainwave frequencies are. That’s why the ears are used to interpret frequencies to the brain. These are great questions, and I appreciate it. At least I know that you know we’re still here and interest interesting. Okay, what I have here is this is from many, many years ago, and this was not my patient, but it was a patient of one of the founders. And this is a drawing of a child who started Neurofeedback nine years old, not too good. You know stick figures at nine years old. This person was definitely functioning below age chronological age development. This is after four months in neurofeedback, same individual, quite quite a dramatic change. In child two here. We see a family drawing at the beginning of neurofeedback. I don’t recall with the age of this child, but to me it doesn’t matter what the age is. This is after 20 sessions of neurofeedback training. This is after 40 sessions. So what we see over a matter of months, some individuals are able to access the resources that are already there. Neurofeedback didn’t create this in his brain. Neurofeedback allowed him access to it. And that’s one of the things that we always you know, try to remember it in in our clinic is these individuals with the exception of a TBI. Have the resources they’ve just been derail. We’re trying to put them back on the track. And we do it with what ever means possible. The more a person is under medical care, and you know, that’s the reason I drive down all the way from my home to do this and work with individuals who support each other is that you can see very dramatic effects from these types of things. So we went over that. And well, I’m sorry, the rest of the slides really are just part of what we’ve already talked about. I do just want to show you a spectral display, which means if you look along the the x axis here, we have hertz frequencies. And then we have time on the on the right hand side and seconds. And then the the colors of the different frequencies. The bumps are then the amplitudes. So we’ve seen a dysregulated brain when we look at the entire thing from a spectral array, we see that there are a lot of slow wave activity going on here. For someone who’s awake, here with eyes open this particular individual, a still isn’t as alert awake as they should be. And here is a nice smooth, normal awake state. So that is some of the things I just wanted to cover today in a sample of what neurofeedback is. Somebody said what do you think of brain SPECT scans? We got a bunch of questions here. Great. I love questions. Lots of questions. Not as many answers okay. Let me get back down here to on the questions here. Okay, what do you think of brains, SPECT scans in relation to cognitive function of the brain? We see a lot of people you know being here in Northern California a lot of people have gone to the original Fairfield clinic for Dr. Ayman. I heard him talk in 1994. He has Neurofeedback in many of his clinics now. The SPECT scans can provide information. It’s not necessarily information that would help me develop a protocol but it might help me to understand if somebody has a ring of fire. They’re bipolar. Well, if I’m going to see somebody bipolar, I’m going to be training left and right temporal lobes or the juncture between the central and temporal lobes. We have found that communication between left and right hemisphere needs to be augmented through feedback and have actually seen some pretty dramatic results with some bipolar individuals. Some stay on medication, it’s usually less than what they started with. A few have even gone off medication which is not common. So I don’t take credit for this. I give the credit to the individuals brain. I’m just trying to help their brains do well. It says is a neuro quant helpful to you? I’m not sure what that what that is. If some if you’d like to respond back to tell me what a neuro quant is if you’re talking about a cue EEG, yes, if there is something specifically called that then I like to be more familiar with the impact of heavy metals pesticides, malnutrition, yes, medications, et cetera. There are biomarkers for all those heavy metals, pesticides, malnutrition, and you know, a cue EEG or even a classic raw EEG can detect a lot of those. If I if I detect something significant in that raw EEG then I will refer that data to a neurologist who is also a practicing quantitative EEG clinician, and there are a few of those that we use as consult consults. I also consult with some other individuals as well.
1:16:40
Interesting meditation in those types of activities. There was a study done by Tom Hart, who did some research on Alpha training back in 1993. A very interesting individual to say the least. He left San Francisco for candidate because he said San Francisco is too restrictive for him. So that gives you an idea who this gentleman is fantastic researcher did some research on Buddhist monks during meditation, watching them get into full alpha and theta states and what they responded back to him was it was interesting to have information that led them back to the same place more consistently. So there’s that type of feedback that we received from them. So yes, we have seen some improvement in meditation. I don’t know Joe Dispenza. But I believe I’ve heard his name. I think he is he in Colorado. I believe I’ve heard that name. mentioned. There’s so many people that I used to feel like I knew everybody but everybody’s a lot larger group now. So I believe I believe I’ve covered what I wanted to cover. So if any of you, you know have any additional questions or would like to ask me anything, I’m happy to try and answer. Thanks.
Bill Clearfield 1:18:37
Thank you very much, John. It was really terrific. I had no idea that’s what you were doing. That’s what you did. So you’re always quiet when you’re around here.
1:18:50
I wonder why.
Bill Clearfield 1:18:54
So you know, a lot of a lot of the work that I do deals, you know, with with hormones, and we deal with a lot of brain injury. Folks, because a lot of the behavioral issues that we see have actually have a hormonal component to it. And do you have any insight at all as to what you know what kind of changes you might see with the with the with the neurofeedback at all
1:19:25
or not?
1:19:26
I’m sorry. Insight with regard to what to
Bill Clearfield 1:19:31
so, you know, a person comes in they had a head injury, and you know, they they’re fatigued, they have depression, they have personality changes they have they’ll have substance abuse issues. You know, fairly fairly typical, you know, chronic long term depression. Medications don’t seem to help very much. We do our hormone panels and we frequently will find low testosterone we’ll find a low growth hormone. Sometimes the will we’ll find some autoimmune issues with it. We sort of to nose up. That’s as far as I go. Have you looked at anything along those lines as far as you know with your neurofeedback?
1:20:25
Sure, yeah. I’ve worked with TBI for for many years. And I can I can tell you that. I never know how each individual is going to turn out to be honest with you. Some people that I had. I don’t want to say little hope. But the prognosis was wasn’t high. I worked with a young girl many years ago who had a right frontal tumor that was removed three or four years old. And the surgeon at the time said well, you know, luckily, it’s the right follow, you know, you probably won’t notice much. And I told them I said look, you know, there’s no empty space up there until you create it. I mean, everything’s going on at once and it’s it’s important, and I proceeded to describe the types of behavior that she had difficulty with, and impulsivity and emotional dysregulation. And she said, Well, you just described my daughter. Well, yeah, you know, she had a tumor in an area where a lot of that processing is happening. So we did some neurofeedback training and every year that she went back for her classic EEG which showed epileptiform activity. A year after neurofeedback, it hasn’t shown it since. So, you know, we were able to say yeah, we can do some things. With with, with the symptoms that you just mentioned, this is so common. Depression is almost guaranteed with with TBI, because when any part of the brain is injured, we see an excess of delta and theta activity. You know the brain. Let’s take a car accident is an example of the frontal lobes hit the windshield. There’s some some shear active shear while activity in the brain. We know that those cells have been compromised. The first thing happens when cells are compromised. Is the brain goes into this sort of recover not recovery mode, but I’m trying to think of it goes into survival mode. So it shuts down some of that cog conscious behavior. You know, as people go into a coma one of the founders of neurofeedback, did some studies on coma, trying to pull people up on their scales. The coma scales, Margaret Margaret Ayers a brilliant individual. So we see the slow wave activity that creates a state that an individual would be in when they’re depressed. So now they’re forced into a depressed state as a result of the injury. So now their brains acting like it would be when they’re depressed normally, but they’re not. It’s not a normal depression. It’s a it’s a it’s a biological insult to the brain. So we can, with the advent of the cue, go in and take a look at where is this activity occurring, and try to help the brain self regulate as best as it can. We’re not going to regrow brain damage. You know, we’re not going to fix damage cells, but there is some compensation that can occur and this is where I tell people often with severe brain injury, you know, a 20% change in brain function is going to change your life. It’s not going to go back to what it was, but it’s going to be a heck of a lot better than where you are now. And so we have been able to see that it’s a tough group. It’s a tough group. I’m not I’m not going to paint a rosy picture. It’s a difficult, difficult. I think the hardest part is getting people to continue coming in when they don’t feel like they’re getting any improvement. Because one of the things that TBI does is make it hard for people to you know, for many people to, you know, strokes and TBI is to notice a change in their state. Their arousal state or their brain state or their functioning state. They really need a third party to say you know what, six months ago you couldn’t fix your meal. Now you’re cooking you know, like, Oh, I didn’t. And so the it’s a long process, but there is a lot of hope for that. Especially when they’re getting the kind of care that you’re doing before they would ever come and see somebody like me, because without that foundational work, I’m wasting my time. Well, with you. Yeah.
Bill Clearfield 1:25:15
You get the end of the road folks to I mean, you know, it’s not a usual thing that they’ll show up here. So, we we have an art you know, in our sort of database, changes in hormonal activity within 96 hours of, of a mild traumatic brain injury almost in men, almost 95% of men have a drop up to 50% of the testosterone within the first 96 hours of a mild traumatic brain injury.
1:25:48
Really, yeah.
Bill Clearfield 1:25:50
And then long term 3030 persons within three months, if it’s not addressed 30% of the mild traumatic brain injury patients have some sort of growth hormone deficiency, and within a year, it actually goes up to about 40% and they have deficits and things like executive function, which is memory concentration. Starting projects multitasking obsessive compulsive tendencies, those kinds of things. And so that’s what I’m looking at.
1:26:27
Yeah, so so then the first thing that comes to my mind is that the nervous system feedback, let’s say, from the thalamic cortical feedback from the cortex to the thalamus, right? And then down further to the hormone glands, right, that hypothalamus etc. is not functioning. So if you’re not getting good feedback to the thalamus and then into deeper subcortical regions, then those areas are going to just stop producing. There, you know, that they they may think that the individual is asleep all the time and you know, or some other type of,
Bill Clearfield 1:27:20
well, you know, those structures are easily structures are easily injured. You know, the hypothalamus has, you know, just only two very thin nerve fibers that feed it and there’s no blood supply and the pituitary has very, two very tiny arteries. And when you shake up the brain, it’s easy to it’s easy to tear all of those structures.
1:27:42
Yeah, and then the brainstem has a limited number of neurotransmitters as well. So why say I tried to be very realistic. Depending on the injury, sometimes we can help compensate for that. And other times, excuse me, other times we cannot. Another question is, do you have any device that you recommend to use at home for brainwaves for personal use? The Muse, I believe it’s musc seems to be fairly well put together as far as the research behind it. One of my colleagues is on their board. Dr. Norman Doidge. He’s a psychiatrist at a Toronto he wrote a book called the brain that changes itself about brain plasticity. And he and if he’s on the board, usually he’s pretty conscious of being around good things like that. It’s m U S. E,
Bill Clearfield 1:28:51
I believe the meanings Could you take that in the chat, John because I’m having a hard time hearing.
1:29:00
Okay, somebody put it in there. Yeah. The brains my healing. by Norman Doidge. Yeah. Okay.
1:29:07
Great. Okay.
Bill Clearfield 1:29:10
And then the next question was about and supplements for brain health.
1:29:17
Excuse me. Yeah. You know I leave that up to Dr. Foster. And so I can’t really give you a specific supplement. I know that, you know, he has a list of my long of things. I’ve never even heard of them. Some of them I have. He’s, he’s probably, if you would like what I’ll do is I’ll talk to him about that. No email to you.
Bill Clearfield 1:29:53
Okay, talk to him about maybe coming on on here also.
1:29:58
Sure. Yeah.
Bill Clearfield 1:30:02
So I know in the, again, in the traumatic brain injury world we’ll use things like Coenzyme Q 10, with PQ Q for mitochondrial resuscitation. adequate vitamin D. omega three fatty acids, particularly the DHA portion. Those are just off the top of my head. And
1:30:28
I’ve seen all those in charts in our office as well. Methyl folate. You know, he does a very similar panel, and really look at, you know, without fundamental biology, everything else is is escaping a chance right. Now, somebody’s asking you about plus margins, they may be asking you, I’m not sure
Bill Clearfield 1:31:02
what that is. I don’t use them. So yeah, we had a lecture on that a couple of weeks ago. Okay. Again, another one of those a little bit esoteric, pretty interesting. And I’d have to go go do a much deeper dive before I started, you know, recommending it at least to our patients. So yeah,
1:31:23
well, I find Bernie I find what what you and your colleagues here are doing is so necessary for anybody like me to get any kind of decent result with what I do. I mean, from the beginning, I always, you know, insisted to people had back then even just a medical checkup to rule out the generalities of 28 years ago, and then slowly became much more aware of what is integrative called integrative medicine now, which is big on my list of things to learn more about and understand because it helps my patients as well.
Bill Clearfield 1:32:13
Anybody out there in zoom land any any of you use the plasma halogens?
1:32:21
Let us know.
Bill Clearfield 1:32:24
Okay, and then, what are one of our other who’s not on tonight, he’s big on OXA intranasal oxytocin for pain management. And all sorts of healing properties. And then any experience with that any of that any of those things, John?
1:32:48
Not directly. No, no, no, I I’ve worked with some pain people, but it’s not really been my specialty. Okay. It’s more of a default. Well, this guy does biofeedback and Tahoe, I have back pain. I’ll go see him. And you know, some, okay, and some of that’s a whole separate specialty. In my in my world. I mean, that’s, that’s the toughest one of all.
1:33:20
May I speak?
Bill Clearfield 1:33:23
I was getting to your job.
1:33:26
Well, Dr. Fennec I made a movie about you this afternoon. Not this afternoon. It’s one minute long. And it’s a one minute intro to our show tonight. Bill’s going to send you that or somebody will. And so I wanted to speak just thank you for what you’re doing. But see also the artwork we have in this video we’re sending you and see if we might have some common path and sharing information here on what you’re doing. Because it relates with electromagnetic fields around the body, that type of thing, exactly what you’re doing. And I just would love to share the info you’re doing and I think you may be doing some of the work that I see. Curing incurable. We’re dealing with a couple of veterans. And just by doing a few simple things with neurofeedback, they’ve made more improvement from that than any other therapy in the last 1020 years. And one of the comments I hear is that, you know, for some reason I’m going to sleep now and my brain feels normal. And my pain and my pain has reduced. And these are hard court cases. I personally know. So I think you’re dealing with something very important and I’d love to share with it if we could.
1:34:45
Yeah, I would I would love to and, you know, maybe I should put my information in here as well.
Bill Clearfield 1:34:55
So John, you said you do training classes
1:34:58
I did for many years and I’m I’m in the process of considering doing them again. I love doing trainings for this. And Dr. Foster and I are really looking at developing a training together for you know, looking at everything we do not just neurofeedback, but I’d be happy to put things on
Bill Clearfield 1:35:30
Well, it’s you know it, it’s a lot easier now that we have these devices here you can actually record you know, just hit a button and it records it and you’re good to go. So what what would what would what kind of training would one need to? I mean, is there a is there a certification? Is there a you know, the you need a PhD for this kind of work? I mean,
1:35:56
typically it’s an MA level training to buy equipment. It’s all it’s all based on equipment purchase. Almost all trainings are from the people that make the equipment. So if you want to do a z score, you go to the guys A to Z score, right? I’m using a system called eager and it’s been around you know for many many many years I know all the people in the company personally I did teach for them. That screen that you saw with the the the therapists eg screen there’s not a lot of them that can replicate that clarity that real time information. I’m looking forward to Daniela, pull it up. There were two men responsible for this.
1:36:53
The first one
1:36:57
Dillingham was back in the 80s. He worked for Hughes Aircraft and so did Siegfried Othmer and Othmer convinced him to develop a screen looking at real time data. See if you look and you see that the red vertical line, it sweeps across the screen in in in real time, real time data coming in across there. So you know if somebody moves their shoulder I see it if they blink I see it. So it’s a very well designed screen. And a lot of people say well that’s you know, that’s not as necessary as just putting in the parameters but for me, I want to see what they’re doing while they’re doing they’re they’re watching that game and anyway. Yeah, there’s all different kinds of opportunities that you know can be considered for for training. Typically, like the eager people want you to be trained to buy their equipment they offer an online course taught by somebody else. They did talk to me about creating another online course. But I’m going to be creating my own with Dr. Foster and if they’re willing to allow people to buy it, it will probably be if I created once again I created the course I taught for them from another course and I got board certification biofeedback certification, the BCI biofeedback, certification, international alliances, and if I get that, then you know they’re going to be willing to allow people to purchase their their instrument. I call it an instrument because you have to learn to play
1:38:54
and yeah, I put
1:39:00
that’s the wrong. Oh, yeah, I’m trying to do too many things at once. Here. Let me put my email in here again.
1:39:22
I have about 100 questions after hearing this talk.
1:39:26
Oh, well. I’d be happy to, you know, meet with you at another time and converse.
1:39:34
Let’s let’s do it because only recently we’ve stumbled into artificial intelligence with imaging image creation, which is what I do. And then I thought the, the materials we use would make me dumber and less of an artist because I’m not drawing enough right. But by using the artificial intelligence programs, my ability to see and think has improved and hasn’t reduced, it’s improved. And I’m wondering if artificial intelligence tied in with visual and words and whatever else we’re doing has an improved effect you know, doesn’t make us lazy. It makes us smarter.
1:40:13
Maybe, I hope so.
1:40:18
I’d like to think that the last 28 years was a very valuable usage of my time. And I see that you know, there are many different forms now. You know, there’s a lot of people calling things neurofeedback, that are similar but different in the fields are growing and I think it’s very exciting. You know, I know that there’s, you know, they’re, you know, like Elon Musk is working on implants and those types of things, which we hope are to help us move our limbs and not transfer our data, per se. But I think that you know, all of these activities in AI are probably, we’re Neurofeedback was 20 years ago. You know, and so we were there. And now, you know, people are thinking, well, we’re moving beyond that, but we’re not, you know, this is still very, very, very important information that’s helpful. You know, you don’t get rid of something because something new comes along you add to it.
Bill Clearfield 1:41:31
So what would a setup like yours cost John?
1:41:38
When I when I started the system and the training was about 30,000. Now it’s down to about for this system you could probably get into this is a very pricey system, but it’s probably around maybe four to 6000 and most of that is further near the software. brainwave amplifiers are still relatively expensive. And, you know, your your computer cost is, is not very high. That’s that’s the least amount of it right. It’s the amplifier. And the technology that you’re that you’re buying. And the support for the for the,
Bill Clearfield 1:42:22
for the so what would what would the cost to a patient be or is this an insurance thing or how is this?
1:42:29
Yeah, yeah, good question. You know, it just depends on how it’s built. Some people bill under psychotherapy, most people that that I work with who are not part of these county contracts for for group homes private pay. I charge 120 for a half hour session, which is usually 45 minutes 180 for an hour session, which is usually you know, 75 minutes or they usually come in once to twice a week outpatient, it’s hard to really get somebody to come in more often. And that’s about the standard for this for this treatment. It’s similar to a therapy.
Bill Clearfield 1:43:14
So is it labor, is this a labor intensive for you? Or can you train an assistant to run the machine and then you know, you can read the scans later? Is that is that is that a way to go or no?
1:43:29
It is. I have had a technician in the past. It’s definitely a way to go. Would I would there are very many there are many different disciplines that use this chiropractic. yourself included. You know, DEOs I, when I trained people, I trained people from every discipline of health areas, they would come to these classes. I had an ER physician who transitioned into doing this in a practice. You know, that’s quite a leap. I think that you know, if you want to do this work, the more you understand and teach yourself about neuro psychology, neurophysiology and all those disciplines, the more you’re gonna be able to understand how this person is going to respond. But it doesn’t mean you have to specialize in those, you know, I had to teach myself all this. And my background in psychology and assessment was was was obviously very helpful. My background as a sound technician, was extremely helpful because I understood a lot of what you’re looking at on the screen here before they even started. It’s like Oh, wow.
1:44:55
Are you familiar with quiet mind foundation in Marvin Berman PhDs work?
1:45:03
I’ve heard of it. I’m not that I’m not you know, intimately familiar with it at all.
1:45:10
Because he’s got technology that can put a unit in for a clinician or a patient. You know, under $2,500.
1:45:22
Okay. And it’s a Neurofeedback or they’re howling. Okay, quiet mind.
1:45:30
quiet mind foundation. Okay. Marvin Berman be er ma N. PhD. Okay. Yeah, they’re in Pennsylvania.
1:45:46
Oh, okay. Okay. Just
1:45:49
one of a number of companies that are out there that have this technology. I was exposed to it in a functional medicine clinic back in 2012. And it was remarkable for kids to improve their physical activity their cognitive performance in school, athletics it was used for and then the standard OCD a DHD conditions.
1:46:25
You know, a lot of these instruments have come down in price and they’re still have very high design quality epically the lesser ones. were limited in what what they could would do what they could do. It was like presets. They were preset where I can manipulate everything, but I would definitely look into that, because we’re looking. Right now I’m looking at I work with a corporation has four group homes. Almost all of them are two hours from my office, and they’ll drive one child, two hours for an hour session and two hours back.
1:47:05
That’s rough, that this may be a wonderful opportunity to help both the patient and and you guys out.
1:47:15
Yeah. My goal is to have a system in each group home and then they can hire med techs to hook them up and then I’ll do the session. Perfect. Yeah. And we’re looking for like this. We’re looking for something that’s feasible. And then obviously, then, you know, I’ll do I’ll train the tech and you know, make monthly visits in person and do the other sessions remotely to keep them learning and doing this. And, you know, we’re starting to see such good results. We are looking for grant money, if anybody knows of some foundations that might be interested in this, because we eventually want to train other psychiatrists and psychologists to work together. Because as I said earlier, it you know, with these really, really challenging individuals who have really had a bad start in life you know, we want to help them turn that around. And it’s very labor intensive. It’s really intensive, but it pays off. So you know, you don’t care how intensive something is. If it pays off. It’s only when you feel like you’re doing all this stuff and nothing happens. But we’re seeing great things happen. So we’re very, very excited to move it forward.
Bill Clearfield 1:48:43
We don’t know anything about doing labor intensive stuff and not not paying off. Do we just think we invented it?
1:48:55
Here you and Dr. Fennec are gonna be world famous dudes. So just took you 50 years to get there
1:49:02
yearly.
Bill Clearfield 1:49:03
You’re making the video so
1:49:05
that’s right.
1:49:09
I asked is do you is this what you do is make videos for a living.
1:49:14
Now I’m a 40 year doctor, but we’ve had a recording studio and a television thing for a long time.
1:49:21
So you’re still practicing and doing this?
1:49:23
Oh no, I only play with medicine. 95% of my work is medical politics. And the reason we want to do the videos is because the whole world has gone tick tock. So if we want to teach them advance medicine or how to hit a baseball, it’s a 10 second to 32nd film.
Bill Clearfield 1:49:44
I didn’t. I had I had this crazy idea that we’re going to take our hormone information and make it into a comic book. And this is this is the this is the result that we’re getting.
1:49:57
One of our board members suggested we do serious medicine in a comic book form. And while we were in the process of doing that the artificial intelligence really turned on. So what it would have taken to do a comic strip now we can do a full length movie in 1% of the time. Oh my god, and about one 1% of the costs. This stuff that I do now. It costs 1% of what it costs 10 years ago. So it’s another world. It’s another world.
1:50:34
It’s very exciting. It is super exciting. Hi, I really want to continue communicating with you. How many ideas going through my head now
1:50:46
was the whole idea of of this group is we are definitely a bunch of good guys. And we’re trying not to eliminate anything or any body if it can be of service to mankind. So because it was my question when you were talking about what you are doing and then build the build as the hormones, general medicine, but I was wondering in California, what is the most complete integrative clinic you’ve seen? We haven’t discussed acupuncture, herbal, homeopathic, and right now Homeopathics under attack, so what do you you know? Yeah, but that’s what if we could put all of these things together and be truly integrative? Wouldn’t it be wonderful?
1:51:30
Well, that’s been my goal for 20 years. I firmly believe my part of my graduate training and assessment was done in a clinic at a university where we staffed all these different people from different disciplines to determine how to how to provide service for an individual. This is Northern Arizona, so we had some Native American populations, sometimes they would have, you know, injuries from being run over by trains. I mean, it was just everything. But what I saw six or seven people do was so much different than what any individual or even small one or two people can do. I know that my colleague David Foster is also extremely interested in this. And he is you know, I don’t want to toot his horn because I work with him but he is an exceptional psychiatrist. The the, the saying around town, is people go to the first psychiatrist, and that psychiatrist has trouble helping him. So they go to a second one when he has trouble helping him. He says art now you got to see Fosston Okay, he just, he’s very devoted. He has been for 40 years. He’s very down to earth, but he’s extremely well versed in what he does. Bill, you
1:53:10
got to bring him on right
Bill Clearfield 1:53:12
yet, John, you’ll get me his contact. We’ll bring him on.
1:53:17
Yeah. What do you want to talk about?
Bill Clearfield 1:53:22
Well, we usually let leave it up, leave it up to the speaker. Unless Unless Dr. Burgess says a bug up is bandied about.
1:53:32
He can talk about like developmental trauma. He can talk about Neuro Linguistic Programming therapy he can he can integrate a lot of different things. I think that what would be interesting and I’ll talk to him is you know how he a lot of what I talked about, but in more detail how he implements his assessment to look at supplements, what kind of therapies he does with what kind of medication needs and brainstem? Yeah, I’ll talk with him in my region.
Bill Clearfield 1:54:05
You mentioned early on that you matched medications to different wave wave patterns.
1:54:13
Yeah, different abnormal patterns, right. He that’s his thing. I mean, he’s got a mental database of that, you know, it wasn’t too long ago, there was a group that published Emran and suffering, published a report about being able to, to determine a medication based on this program they put together but they didn’t share their data. So it kind of got pushed aside. He has data in his head, you know, that we need to get down into some cohesive form of communication. You know, we’re a small clinic, so we spend most of our time surviving like everybody else. But he’ll look at a queue and go, Oh, well, this person needs Cimarron. I mean it just boom. And then he has reduced initial negative effects of medication. Probably by 75%. The trial and error free cycle Tropix.
Bill Clearfield 1:55:16
And we’d like we’d like to learn how to do that.
1:55:19
Yeah, yeah. I think that you would, I can talk to him about that. And make some put some examples together. Of that. That we’ve got years of these kids and he’s been reading them and studying under some of the people as as I have. And so, you know, like John, like you said, Dr. Burgess we really need to put our heads together and you know, create an exponential change in these kinds of things. Because I think people should be able, like you said, nowadays, people could come online they could go get their, their. Their 10 tests, write their evaluations, whether it’s a cue or the blood or the PT of whatever it is, and then come to a place where there are people from 10 Different disciplines that put together some sort of information sharing, that I think could change the way that that people are helped.
1:56:32
I think your ship has arrived because that’s exactly what we do. And we have quite a crew here and everybody’s doing their best. And you sound like you want to do exactly what we’re trying to do. That’s great.
1:56:47
Where are you located?
1:56:49
I’m in West Virginia, two hours from Washington DC.
1:56:53
Okay,
1:56:54
I am so I’m from the former heroin capital of the United States. It’s an interesting place. So you know, I My specialty is paying for 20 years but we also have a major military base here and that type of thing going on. So like I say, DC suburbs, we’re actually part of incorporated Washington DC, were 60 mile 60 to 70 miles away, but we have been incorporated into Washington DC so we’re a major player in that whole DCC
1:57:30
Is it the circumference? A circumferential? Is everybody within 10 Miles
1:57:38
know they got a special hand that reaches all the way out via sent via Senator Robert C. Byrd and our military but it’s just an older, older, advanced military thing but we have a lot of things going on here. We have the largest chemical production facility I believe on the earth. There are two major drug chemical, household product production centers on the planet. And one is Procter and Gamble which is right here in our town to our small town, but it’s 1000 acre factory with the most advanced robotic systems available in the planet. They can make anything and everything you want, right here. And we also have the largest tactical military airplanes in the world. Bunch of stuff like that going on. Anyway, it’s a fun place to be.
1:58:37
Do you have a website?
1:58:40
I do.
1:58:42
If I have your email I’ll get in touch
1:58:49
redoing my my my website.
1:58:54
You only have one page.
1:58:56
Now you pull it that’s just I just keep that as a place marker. The gentleman who’s supposed to do my website is sort of left and I haven’t been able to figure out how I wanted Dr. Foster and myself to integrate a website. And that’s one of the things I need to work on this upcoming, you know, starting my new year’s resolution.
1:59:20
We’re totally totally happy to help with that a bill can you send him the flick I sent to you.
1:59:27
Send you what?
1:59:28
I sent you a video did you get that?
Bill Clearfield 1:59:31
I don’t know.
1:59:35
Well, we’ll be in touch but what you want to do anything visual I can do that. So love to speak with you about this. Because with the artificial intelligence we can do things with images we just could not do before and the kinds of things you’re doing fall right in line with.
1:59:54
Well, that would be wonderful and with with your skills, we could attract people with brain images and things that they’ve never seen before to make it as enticing as it ought to be. Brain Science is enticing and yet it’s not being represented as such.
2:00:16
Well basically just if we didn’t talk about anything else, and we just mentioned the couple of veterans I’ve seen improved recently. It was just absolutely amazing. It’s shocking. It’s important and without that we would have been dealing with more suicides, more problems, more dementia for sure. But it’s like they snapped out of it just looking at a computer they said but they’re better. So I hope we can talk about all of this.
2:00:47
Yeah, yeah, definitely.
2:00:49
Definitely. He needs to see Joel.
2:00:54
Joel is our marine and he’s also part of our patient advocacy. Oh, okay. And he’s been playing partner with Bill and myself forever. So that’s another connection we have with the VA. And they’re the ones that seem to be pushing some of this.
2:01:13
And I’m working on some of that. I’m working on some of that government grant type, environment and government contracts. I’ve got to get my Sam’s number, my DUNS number, and I could start approaching them about those contracts that are out there. Oh, here’s your
Bill Clearfield 2:01:33
here’s, here’s your video, John. All right.
2:01:35
Let’s do it. I want to work with Joe and John and you will and we’ll make it happen.
2:01:41
Yeah. Yeah.
2:01:46
Good enough. We’ll do it
2:01:58
this is after the fact John But
2:02:02
everything went quiet. Oh, shoot. Look what’s on the screen.
2:02:08
Isn’t that cool? This is your movie. Can everybody hear it?
2:02:14
There’s no sound.
2:02:16
Now you don’t need to hear just me talking. But you can see the the way the images we can incorporate things. Yeah. So what I did I took the title of your info intro tonight and I put your words with these images. So here you see what we’re doing. These are our rich, these are original images. We own them. We control them. So we can do some classy stuff now. It’s just amazing.
2:02:47
And kind of cool.
Bill Clearfield 2:02:51
You get you’re getting better at
2:02:53
this job. And it’s tricky but it’s so much fun. And like I said I thought my brain would become dumber. But by using these tools, my clarity of mind has increased. Totally unexpected. So anyway, I think we have something to talk about and I’d be happy to help you with this. If we wanted to do this type of thing. Great.
Bill Clearfield 2:03:19
Somebody said yes. You spelled psychiatry wrong.
2:03:22
I did I think I spelled a few of them wrong and most people who watch my RA films think they’re disgusting and other stuff like that because the AI, the AI programs tend to knock out naked women. So if you want a classical view of an electron, there will be a naked woman holding it. Okay, so you have to be careful, repulsive. That’s the word the works can be repulsive if you’re not careful.
2:03:56
But I’m careful. Okay, um,
Bill Clearfield 2:04:00
I had it is dark. Dr. Dan Freeland. You will on still one it was a Yeah. Okay, so, John is there anything else? We had a we had a request for asked me and I about like you locked in. I’m just going to ask the group.
2:04:22
I’ve never asked me questions, but I had a question about Supranuclear palsy. One of my friends just got the diagnosis. And I’ve had one friend in the past, you know, many, many years ago, 20 years ago, die of that. Is there any alternative approaches to that type of injury?
Bill Clearfield 2:04:47
Nothing. I’ve never I’ve never dealt with it.
2:04:52
Well, I didn’t think I wasn’t honestly a question. I just found out today for my friend. This wasn’t actually for the neurofeedback. If it would work, I’d love to buy the $2,500 machine like that for my friend. And my son actually who’s autistic. I think it’s great. Thank you for the whoever gave it the mind. situation. quiet mind. Does anybody else have any suggestions? IV glutathione. Anything like that? What was the name of it? Supranuclear palsy.
2:05:34
I’m not familiar with it. What does it affect?
2:05:38
It is such a rare condition. The friends that I had before it kind of from Agent Orange. They think this girl has not ever been in the military. She’s just a girl, just a teacher. So I don’t think she’s been exposed to anything like that. But I don’t know maybe other pesticides or something like that might have done that. But she’s very healthy. She does yoga. She eats healthy. I just wanted to I guess there’s honestly nothing specific for Supranuclear palsy. I’ll probably just have to look it up myself and try and approach you know, from a more super health kind of approach maybe.
Bill Clearfield 2:06:27
You know, if they came in here we would again balanced their hormones. We would see how that would work out we would do micronutrient testing we would, you know try to try to balance the microbiome. We would look for I’m looking more and more at the you know, toxic mold we had Dr. Campbell on. We’re actually finding some of that we never looked for for it before. Okay. So so that you know, so that’s that’s kind of the approach that I would take. I mean, again, I don’t have anything specific I don’t know if you know it’s a neurological issue. Someone read your VEDA that sounds good. as well. Yeah. Which is Boswellia which is a homeopathic remedy. That’s sort of I’m sorry, repeat that please. Boswellia This is Dr. Stoker as well as well.
2:07:22
He got it. I’ll certainly look that up after we get off here. Okay. So that was that was just just a little bonus. Personally, I’ve never seen or may read somewhere. It’s something that I premium, no unnecessary. It’s probably not going to do any harm. So that could be an excellent thing to do anyway. So Okay. Well, thank you so much. I appreciate the need more than welcome.
Bill Clearfield 2:07:52
Anybody anybody who’s new if you like what you saw, please leave me your email address so we can add you to our database to let you know what our events are. Next week we have Dr. John new stat he’s got he’s an MD. And he he’s written a book on fracture proof your bones we’re gonna be talking about osteoporosis, among other things, and again, you know, with his background it’s mostly physiotherapy, plant based supplements and lifestyle changes. So we’ll be talking about that. Dr. Finnick anything else? Any other any other Any parting shots any any summary? We always like a summary tell us what you already told us. Okay, and
2:08:47
well, I just I thank you for the opportunity to more than welcome. And I think in summary, I would just say that there’s a lot of people trying to do good work out there. And I think that the more we get together, the better. That’s my summary.
Bill Clearfield 2:09:10
If you understand that, you know, when when the group you know, is really interested in your topic and they liked the way you presented it all. We’re going to bother you again a couple of months down the road to present again, if you did a bad job, we wouldn’t call you again. You know,
2:09:27
are you suggesting already that you will or you
Bill Clearfield 2:09:30
know, suggesting and I will if I if I if I wasn’t I wouldn’t have put it up in the first place.
2:09:36
All right. Okay.
Bill Clearfield 2:09:38
Anybody else got any questions, comments? Anybody go into a forum this weekend? I am not. But I there okay, well, Claudia, you’re gonna have to report for us. And so a for me if you don’t know John is like the biggest anti aging conference every year. It’s in Las Vegas every every, every year this weekend, but usually I used to be a speaker there all the time, but they didn’t want me this time and then some other things ran ran into into some issues. So I think I got to think today though, they’re having they’re having it online like this, so like do that. Okay, so anybody that’s one for a for an please take notes. I’m trying not to get suckered into spending $10,000 on a program and where the vendors are, which is easy to do. Stay away from the skincare people, you know, there’s a real Berliners there. And we’ll be back again next week. I’m going to the anti aging conferences never gets old. It’s so true. So same time, same station. We are we’ve been here for over two years now. And at five o’clock Pacific, eight o’clock Eastern, and we get you know, we get the best of the best. I mean, we get speakers that are charged 510 $20,000 for an hour at some of these conferences and we get them for free. So
2:11:17
where do we send my bill?
Bill Clearfield 2:11:19
You can send it to me and I’ll put it with all the others. Yeah, so So again, thank you so much for being with us. If you don’t mind, we’ll put you on our email list. So you know whenever you’re whenever you’re have nothing to do at five o’clock on Tuesdays, we’ll be here. Okay, how
2:11:40
do I get information to you know,
Bill Clearfield 2:11:44
give me your type in the chat type in your your email address and name and you will be added forthwith so
2:11:57
I’m in geriatrics in Florida.
Bill Clearfield 2:12:01
Okay, you are you’re Daniel Kaplan.
2:12:04
Yeah, do me too. Great. So,
Bill Clearfield 2:12:10
Dr. Dr. Burgess will explain all about the DEOs if you just send me okay so that there’s my this is my email address here Dr. Bill nine at Gmail. Okay, and you can write right back to me. You got that there.
2:12:27
Okay, let’s go under chat. Go in chat. All right.
2:12:37
Thanks so much.
Bill Clearfield 2:12:38
We got it. Okay. Or if you want to put yours in if you don’t want to put it in for everybody to see just put my Oh sure. So to me and we’ll make sure Thanks, Marie. Hurray for geriatrics.
2:12:58
Speaking your geriatrics in Florida. How far are you from Lake City?
2:13:04
I have a good two hours.
2:13:06
Okay. We’re in we’re in Naples on the West Coast.
2:13:10
There’s a piece of property I’ve been watching for about five years it was sold came back up sold came back up 23 acres and Lake City is beautiful. It has maybe rooms and housing for 50 people. So it’s just a beautiful piece of property, but for a gathering for an integrated thing where you put people together as you were mentioning earlier, that could be a place but anyway, it’s one of those. We’re gonna we’re gonna
Bill Clearfield 2:13:39
go down to Dr. Phoenix place down at Lake Tahoe
2:13:45
do that do
Bill Clearfield 2:13:46
you do that? Okay, Dr. Kaplan if you want to if you want to just email me or if you want to give me your email address, we’ll make sure you’re
2:13:55
getting in now for anyone who you could just put it together just
Bill Clearfield 2:13:58
just send it to me if you want you know you can you don’t have to send it to everyone. How’d you find this by the
2:14:04
way? Through Joe here in Naples.
Bill Clearfield 2:14:09
Oh, right, right, right. Right, right. Okay. Right. So are you part of his group, the diabetes group.
2:14:16
Now we just actually met in a certain dip it his way.
2:14:20
Oh, okay.
2:14:23
So I write, amongst other things, children’s books.
2:14:27
Oh, great.
Bill Clearfield 2:14:31
Okay. All right, everybody. So I haven’t gotten any of you. Are you typing in your?
2:14:38
Yeah. Okay.
Bill Clearfield 2:14:41
Type it in for us. So it’s for me, or I can get it from Joe if
2:14:47
there we go. Okay.
2:14:51
Hey, I need money. Do you? Are you do you need a illustrator designer for your children’s books? Well,
2:14:59
I have a good one. But there’s a lot of books coming. So. Yes.
2:15:06
Let’s talk just for fun.
Bill Clearfield 2:15:09
Right. You might scare the kids away, John.
2:15:14
You can say I sent you tonight. Because you were telling you about it affecting a child’s path if you get them early in the path. So I already sent Bill two images tonight of children on on a path you know, so you can do some really beautiful stuff with this. Check it out.
Bill Clearfield 2:15:31
Okay. All right. I will I will. I will make sure you get it Dr. Finnick. And if
2:15:40
Dr. Kaplan to I got Dr. Kaplan,
Bill Clearfield 2:15:43
we’ll get Dr. Kaplan Wait, maybe I’ll talk to you John about it. And if you like it, well, we can put it on the website and you know, pretty much anybody can sue. So, okay. Okay, everybody. Have a great night. And those of you going to a forum, I expect the full report. This is probably the first live one I haven’t been to in about 15 years, but it is what it is. So next week again, Dr. John new stat, fracture proof your bones so you’ll need to know that John. Right. Okay. Thank you, everybody. We will we will over and out and we’ll see you again next week.
2:16:29
Prior to that,
2:16:31
bye bye. Thank you.